The Sandy Hook School Shooting Tragedy

No Dennis, I don't think it's too provocative. I almost came here a few
days ago to post about this myself, but changed my mind. I don't know what
to say about the laws anywhere as I am not into politics at all. I think
all or most of us have been affected in some way by this horrendous and
horrible shooting of little children and some adults. :-( To me, the laws
are too lax. I live in Canada now, but don't know much about their law
regarding guns either. My husband, Don, told me that they had stricter laws
and that you don't hear too much about random shootings like in the US. At
least, I *think* he said they have stricter laws. Anyway, I not only suffer
from anxiety/panic disorder, but I have PTSD too and I can only imagine what
those parents, children, etc., are thinking and feeling now. My heart just
ached when I watched Dr. Oz after the children went back to school that
Monday. :-( He had an excellent show that day, speaking with a few
survivor children and the parent(s), and some other guests. He really and
truly is a very nice man. He went to Sandy Hook that Friday and spent the
weekend consoling the citizens there. I don't care what people say. You
didn't hear about someone going mad and shooting up a school, mall, etc.,
when I was a teenager back in the 1960's. Sure you would hear the odd
story, but not like it's been for the past 10-20 years and certainly not
like it's been for the past couple of years. One more thing. I lived in
Sandy Hook, CT when I was getting divorced. I boarded with a woman there
for a few months. This was back around 1973-1975, can't remember which
year, and I don't personally know any of these children or their parents or
police, etc. But I do remember it being a very quiet, peaceful and quaint
town. The whole thing makes me sick and I wonder if my slight depression
and crying on and off for the past few days doesn't have something to do
with this and my PTSD. Thank you, Dennis, for bringing this out in the
open. Stay well! {{{{{{{Dennis}}}}}}}

Diane
(formerly ladydi)

Post by Dennis
I wonder what anyone here thinks about the Sandy Hook Elementary School
shootings tragedy?
We're an unusual group here. We have 'mental illnesses' ourselves, and
some of us have had hospitalizations for it - I've had 12 so far. :-(
Due to that, I cannot legally buy guns or ammo.
There were times when I might have shot myself, but I never thought of
shooting anyone else, though I was always asked about that.
I used guns when I was a kid but not since. I've fired 0.22 revolvers
and automatic pistols. I've never fired a semi-auto long gun. I have
fired a lever-action 0.22 rifle, a 410-gauge single-barrel shotgun, and a
20-gauge pump-action shotgun, which was the most powerful weapon I've
fired.
In those days kids could go to the police station and fire 0.22 bolt-
action single-shot rifles at their range under supervision. Was never a
very good shot, since that was before I wore glasses.
I'm from Kansas, a fairly rural US state where hunting is popular. In
Louisiana, I'd say hunting is more popular; people typically belong to
hunting clubs and hunt on land the club owns. I don't know of hunting
clubs in Kansas.
Some storeowners have pistols to protect their businesses; I doubt they
have much practice with them, though that's essential for effective use.
To buy guns and ammo, background checks are necessary, though at gun
shows those requirements are very loosely followed; gun shows are quite
common. Some states and cities have laws that are much stricter than
that, though I couldn't give details.
Of course, the Second Amendment gives overall protection to gun use and
ownership, and since it's part of our Constitution, the Second Amendment
can't be re-legislated, and is subject to control only by our Federal
judiciary.
I'd be most curious to hear about the situation in other countries. What
are laws and regulations like? What about gun use, for hunting, target
shooting, and self-protection? I know that in France, fear that guns
might be used in a revolution is a big factor - one that is unknown in
the US.
I hope this isn't too provocative.

Mary

2012-12-23 05:41:10 UTC

Post by Diane
No Dennis, I don't think it's too provocative. I almost came here a few
days ago to post about this myself, but changed my mind. I don't know
what to say about the laws anywhere as I am not into politics at all. I
think all or most of us have been affected in some way by this horrendous
and horrible shooting of little children and some adults. :-( To me, the
laws are too lax. I live in Canada now, but don't know much about their
law regarding guns either. My husband, Don, told me that they had
stricter laws and that you don't hear too much about random shootings like
in the US. At least, I *think* he said they have stricter laws.

Even though we in Canada live next door to the U.S. and have much in common
with the U.S. many of our laws and practices and customs are completely
different to the U.S. way of life. Gun control is much more strict here than
in the U.S. and crime
rates are much lower, even if you take into consideration differences in
population.
It is not in our Charter of Rights to own a gun for self defence. Some
people have guns for target practice or for
hunting in northern Ontario or in western Canada. I've never known anyone
personally who hunted or owned a gun or hunted, but I think there would be
more people living in the country who might hunt.

I've lived in Canada most of my adult life, except for first 16 years and I
have been following the Sandy Hook school tragedy, so sad. But I can tell
you that Canada has MUCH stronger gun laws than the U.S.
Some gun crime does come up in a city as big as Toronto, mainly among youth
gangs in certain pockets of the city,
but there is no comparison to the U.S. amount of guns and school shootings.
It is against the law here to have a gun unless you have been checked out
well and you are only using it for hunting. I do not personally know of one
person who owns a gun. I have never seen a gun here in my entire life. It
is
mainly a non-issue to talk about here unless about a shooting where gangs
have shot someone in their
neighbourhood. Most guns used in these shootings that police have seized
have been traced
to the U.S. and have been smuggled into Canada. The average person does not
own one.

Post by Diane
Anyway, I not only suffer
from anxiety/panic disorder, but I have PTSD too and I can only imagine
what those parents, children, etc., are thinking and feeling now. My
heart just ached when I watched Dr. Oz after the children went back to
school that Monday. :-( He had an excellent show that day, speaking with
a few survivor children and the parent(s), and some other guests. He
really and truly is a very nice man. He went to Sandy Hook that Friday
and spent the weekend consoling the citizens there.

I can't even imagine how these parents felt.

Post by Diane
I don't care what
people say. You didn't hear about someone going mad and shooting up a
school, mall, etc., when I was a teenager back in the 1960's. Sure you
would hear the odd story, but not like it's been for the past 10-20 years
and certainly not like it's been for the past couple of years. One more
thing. I lived in Sandy Hook, CT when I was getting divorced. I boarded
with a woman there for a few months. This was back around 1973-1975,
can't remember which year, and I don't personally know any of these
children or their parents or police, etc. But I do remember it being a
very quiet, peaceful and quaint town.

You never used to hear about gun problems and school shootings in the 1970's
in the U.S., but its been getting worse in the last 120-20 years. I don't
know why. Its like some people there have an obsession with guns and a fear
of not having a gun to defend themselves when there is no danger.

Dennis

2012-12-23 07:06:42 UTC

Post by Mary
Even though we in Canada live next door to the U.S. and have much in
common with the U.S. many of our laws and practices and customs are
completely different to the U.S. way of life. Gun control is much more
strict here than in the U.S. and crime
rates are much lower, even if you take into consideration differences
in population.
It is not in our Charter of Rights to own a gun for self defence. Some
people have guns for target practice or for
hunting in northern Ontario or in western Canada. I've never known
anyone personally who hunted or owned a gun or hunted, but I think
there would be more people living in the country who might hunt.

I think Canadians say that they had the Mounties to keep the peace on their
frontier, so it wasn't every man for himself like the US frontier, where we
had the Wild West.

A while back I read a book about the Alaska Gold Rush that illustrated this
well; it discussed the US/Canadian border there, and how lawless the US
side was.

I suppose that's how the current situation developed.

Dennis

Mary

2012-12-24 21:29:31 UTC

I think Canadians say that they had the Mounties to keep the peace on their
frontier, so it wasn't every man for himself like the US frontier, where we
had the Wild West.

The RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) as they are mainly called here are
Federal. Large provinces such as Ontario and Qebec have their own police
forces. They are mainly in B.C. (Western Canada) where towns are far apart
and in small towns in all provinces or norther locations where there are no
police forces. We only see them here in parades sometimes. There are quite
a few in Ottawa which is the capital of Canada. The larges city in Canada is
Toronto but the capital is Ottawa. In Toronto and most of Ontario we just
have regular police forces but in northern parts of Ontario they have RCMP.
They don't always wear red uniforms. they have other police-like uniforms.

Post by Dennis
A while back I read a book about the Alaska Gold Rush that illustrated
this well; it discussed the US/Canadian border there, and how lawless the
US
side was.
I suppose that's how the current situation developed.

Could be! - only they had more to fight about in those days of the gold
rush, but today they should have less to fight about in the U.S. now but
many still seem to think they are still on the wild frontier.

Mary

Diane

2012-12-23 20:47:15 UTC

Thank you Mary. My husband, Don, replied here. He said some of the same
things that you said.

Post by Mary
I've lived in Canada most of my adult life, except for first 16 years and I
have been following the Sandy Hook school tragedy, so sad. But I can tell
you that Canada has MUCH stronger gun laws than the U.S.
Some gun crime does come up in a city as big as Toronto, mainly among
youth gangs in certain pockets of the city,
but there is no comparison to the U.S. amount of guns and school shootings.
It is against the law here to have a gun unless you have been checked out
well and you are only using it for hunting. I do not personally know of one
person who owns a gun. I have never seen a gun here in my entire life. It
is
mainly a non-issue to talk about here unless about a shooting where gangs
have shot someone in their
neighbourhood. Most guns used in these shootings that police have seized
have been traced
to the U.S. and have been smuggled into Canada. The average person does
not own one.

It IS such an awful tragedy and just seems to be getting worse and worse.
Sooo many people in the US can get a gun much too easily than other
countries. It's just amazing and I wish they could stop it somehow. :-(

I can't even imagine how these parents felt.

I can't either, Mary. I hope none of us ever have to go through that kind
of experience, EVER!

You never used to hear about gun problems and school shootings in the
1970's in the U.S., but its been getting worse in the last 120-20 years. I
don't know why. Its like some people there have an obsession with guns and
a fear of not having a gun to defend themselves when there is no danger.

Yes, exactly! I think they definitely have a fear of not being able to
defend their families, etc. They need to have a gun in the house whether or
not they really ever need to use it. I remember an old TV movie with Sally
Struthers. I think it was called A Gun in the House, but not positive.
What a great movie that was! Said it all, if you know what I mean.

Hugs,

Diane

Mary

2012-12-24 21:32:08 UTC

Post by Mary
Even though we in Canada live next door to the U.S. and have much in common
with the U.S. many of our laws and practices and customs are completely
different to the U.S. way of life. Gun control is much more strict here
than in the U.S. and crime
rates are much lower, even if you take into consideration differences in
population.
It is not in our Charter of Rights to own a gun for self defence. Some
people have guns for target practice or for
hunting in northern Ontario or in western Canada. I've never known anyone
personally who hunted or owned a gun or hunted, but I think there would be
more people living in the country who might hunt.

Thank you Mary. My husband, Don, replied here. He said some of the same
things that you said.

I didn't know *that* Don was your husband. His post was very well said. I
answered his post and told him I agreed with everything he said. Don is
Canadian isn't he? Since he has always lived in Canada he would notice there
is a big difference between the U.S. and Canada and how they view the
subject of guns. By the way, before you moved to Windsor, didn't you live
in Toronto area? Brampton? or somewhere around there?

With you being from the U.S. ou must have seen a big difference in crime, no
guns in Canada when you first came to Canada, or at least you may never see
a gun here in your lifetime. Its not much of a subject here as most people
don't own a gun and probably never will. Not to say there is no crime and no
guns, because there is, but its mainly gangs shooting each other. that has
become a problem with young black youths in certain parts of Toronto in the
last 10 years or so. Most of their guns have been traced to the U.S. and
smuggled into Canada. Mass school shoootings are not common here, but
sometimes there are stabbings. stabbings are probably more common as gums
are hard to get. At least with stabbings, you may get a chance to run away,
but not much chance if someone shoots you even from a distance.

Post by Mary
I've lived in Canada most of my adult life, except for first 16 years and I
have been following the Sandy Hook school tragedy, so sad. But I can tell
you that Canada has MUCH stronger gun laws than the U.S.
Some gun crime does come up in a city as big as Toronto, mainly among
youth gangs in certain pockets of the city,
but there is no comparison to the U.S. amount of guns and school shootings.
It is against the law here to have a gun unless you have been checked out
well and you are only using it for hunting. I do not personally know of one
person who owns a gun. I have never seen a gun here in my entire life.
It is
mainly a non-issue to talk about here unless about a shooting where gangs
have shot someone in their
neighbourhood. Most guns used in these shootings that police have seized
have been traced
to the U.S. and have been smuggled into Canada. The average person does
not own one.

There are 235 million guns in the U.S. and 300 million population. Thats a
lot of guns. No other country in the western world has anything like that
many guns. Today on the news as I mentioned before, it said gun enthusiasts
went to gun shows today and most wanted to buy an assault weapon in case
they couldn't get any if they were banned soon. That sounds like some
obsession as if it was something good to own an assault weapon. Its a
military weapon and you can kill a lot of people all in one round. its more
suited to shooting humans or used in wars. You don't need that to protect
yourself. you need it to kill people.

You never used to hear about gun problems and school shootings in the
1970's in the U.S., but its been getting worse in the last 120-20 years.
I don't know why. Its like some people there have an obsession with guns
and a fear of not having a gun to defend themselves when there is no
danger.

Yes, exactly! I think they definitely have a fear of not being able to
defend their families, etc. They need to have a gun in the house whether
or not they really ever need to use it.

It seems paranoid to me the same as rushing out to buy an assault rifle. its
like well if you have a gun, you will shoot me, but if I have a gun too, I
could defend myself and maybe I will shoot you first. what are the chances
of that. Its like a very remote possibility becomes realistic. what kind of
thinking is that? you could frighten yourself to death. its beyond me.

Post by Diane
I remember an old TV movie with Sally Struthers. I think it was called A
Gun in the House, but not positive. What a great movie that was! Said it
all, if you know what I mean.

Don't remember seeing that.

Diane

2012-12-25 02:50:06 UTC

Mary, can I ask a big favor of you? Could you email me privately and then I
will gladly answer your questions? I really don't want to discuss anything
in this thread anymore, but I do want to talk to you. :-) Email me at
***@cogeco.ca, okay? Thank you very much!

Hugs,

Diane

Post by Mary
Even though we in Canada live next door to the U.S. and have much in common
with the U.S. many of our laws and practices and customs are completely
different to the U.S. way of life. Gun control is much more strict here
than in the U.S. and crime
rates are much lower, even if you take into consideration differences in
population.
It is not in our Charter of Rights to own a gun for self defence. Some
people have guns for target practice or for
hunting in northern Ontario or in western Canada. I've never known anyone
personally who hunted or owned a gun or hunted, but I think there would be
more people living in the country who might hunt.

Thank you Mary. My husband, Don, replied here. He said some of the same
things that you said.

I didn't know *that* Don was your husband. His post was very well said. I
answered his post and told him I agreed with everything he said. Don is
Canadian isn't he? Since he has always lived in Canada he would notice
there is a big difference between the U.S. and Canada and how they view
the subject of guns. By the way, before you moved to Windsor, didn't you
live in Toronto area? Brampton? or somewhere around there?
With you being from the U.S. ou must have seen a big difference in crime,
no guns in Canada when you first came to Canada, or at least you may never
see a gun here in your lifetime. Its not much of a subject here as most
people don't own a gun and probably never will. Not to say there is no
crime and no guns, because there is, but its mainly gangs shooting each
other. that has become a problem with young black youths in certain parts
of Toronto in the last 10 years or so. Most of their guns have been traced
to the U.S. and smuggled into Canada. Mass school shoootings are not
common here, but sometimes there are stabbings. stabbings are probably
more common as gums are hard to get. At least with stabbings, you may get
a chance to run away, but not much chance if someone shoots you even from
a distance.

Post by Mary
I've lived in Canada most of my adult life, except for first 16 years and I
have been following the Sandy Hook school tragedy, so sad. But I can tell
you that Canada has MUCH stronger gun laws than the U.S.
Some gun crime does come up in a city as big as Toronto, mainly among
youth gangs in certain pockets of the city,
but there is no comparison to the U.S. amount of guns and school shootings.
It is against the law here to have a gun unless you have been checked out
well and you are only using it for hunting. I do not personally know of one
person who owns a gun. I have never seen a gun here in my entire life.
It is
mainly a non-issue to talk about here unless about a shooting where
gangs have shot someone in their
neighbourhood. Most guns used in these shootings that police have seized
have been traced
to the U.S. and have been smuggled into Canada. The average person does
not own one.

There are 235 million guns in the U.S. and 300 million population. Thats a
lot of guns. No other country in the western world has anything like that
many guns. Today on the news as I mentioned before, it said gun
enthusiasts went to gun shows today and most wanted to buy an assault
weapon in case they couldn't get any if they were banned soon. That sounds
like some obsession as if it was something good to own an assault weapon.
Its a military weapon and you can kill a lot of people all in one round.
its more suited to shooting humans or used in wars. You don't need that to
protect yourself. you need it to kill people.

You never used to hear about gun problems and school shootings in the
1970's in the U.S., but its been getting worse in the last 120-20 years.
I don't know why. Its like some people there have an obsession with guns
and a fear of not having a gun to defend themselves when there is no
danger.

Yes, exactly! I think they definitely have a fear of not being able to
defend their families, etc. They need to have a gun in the house whether
or not they really ever need to use it.

It seems paranoid to me the same as rushing out to buy an assault rifle.
its like well if you have a gun, you will shoot me, but if I have a gun
too, I could defend myself and maybe I will shoot you first. what are the
chances of that. Its like a very remote possibility becomes realistic.
what kind of thinking is that? you could frighten yourself to death. its
beyond me.

Post by Diane
I remember an old TV movie with Sally Struthers. I think it was called A
Gun in the House, but not positive. What a great movie that was! Said it
all, if you know what I mean.

Don't remember seeing that.
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Dennis

2012-12-23 09:57:54 UTC

Post by Diane
No Dennis, I don't think it's too provocative. I almost came here a
few days ago to post about this myself, but changed my mind. I don't
know what to say about the laws anywhere as I am not into politics at
all. I think all or most of us have been affected in some way by this
horrendous and horrible shooting of little children and some adults.
:-( To me, the laws are too lax. I live in Canada now, but don't
know much about their law regarding guns either. My husband, Don,
told me that they had stricter laws and that you don't hear too much
about random shootings like in the US. At least, I *think* he said
they have stricter laws. Anyway, I not only suffer from anxiety/panic
disorder, but I have PTSD too and I can only imagine what those
parents, children, etc., are thinking and feeling now.

I can't imagine. I know people who do have PTSD, though I don't. I've
had things that were close enough, though.

Post by Diane
My heart just
ached when I watched Dr. Oz after the children went back to school
that Monday. :-( He had an excellent show that day, speaking with a
few survivor children and the parent(s), and some other guests. He
really and truly is a very nice man. He went to Sandy Hook that
Friday and spent the weekend consoling the citizens there.
I don't
care what people say. You didn't hear about someone going mad and
shooting up a school, mall, etc., when I was a teenager back in the
1960's. Sure you would hear the odd story, but not like it's been for
the past 10-20 years and certainly not like it's been for the past
couple of years.

I remember that too.

Post by Diane
One more thing. I lived in Sandy Hook, CT when I
was getting divorced. I boarded with a woman there for a few months.
This was back around 1973-1975, can't remember which year, and I don't
personally know any of these children or their parents or police, etc.
But I do remember it being a very quiet, peaceful and quaint town.

Wow! How ironic.

Post by Diane
The whole thing makes me sick and I wonder if my slight depression and
crying on and off for the past few days doesn't have something to do
with this and my PTSD. Thank you, Dennis, for bringing this out in
the open. Stay well! {{{{{{{Dennis}}}}}}}

You too Diane!

{{{{{{Diane}}}}}

Diane

2012-12-23 15:46:52 UTC

Post by Diane
No Dennis, I don't think it's too provocative. I almost came here a
few days ago to post about this myself, but changed my mind. I don't
know what to say about the laws anywhere as I am not into politics at
all. I think all or most of us have been affected in some way by this
horrendous and horrible shooting of little children and some adults.
:-( To me, the laws are too lax. I live in Canada now, but don't
know much about their law regarding guns either. My husband, Don,
told me that they had stricter laws and that you don't hear too much
about random shootings like in the US. At least, I *think* he said
they have stricter laws. Anyway, I not only suffer from anxiety/panic
disorder, but I have PTSD too and I can only imagine what those
parents, children, etc., are thinking and feeling now.

I can't imagine. I know people who do have PTSD, though I don't. I've
had things that were close enough, though.

I'm so glad you don't have it, Dennis, but I feel bad for you that you have
other issues. {{{{{Dennis}}}}}

I remember that too.

So sad! :-(

Wow! How ironic.

Yes, VERY ironic.

You too Diane!
{{{{{{Diane}}}}}

Thank you so much, Dennis. You take care of yourself too.

Diane

Philip Peters

2012-12-22 14:26:36 UTC

Post by Dennis
I'd be most curious to hear about the situation in other countries. What
are laws and regulations like? What about gun use, for hunting, target
shooting, and self-protection? I know that in France, fear that guns
might be used in a revolution is a big factor - one that is unknown in
the US.
I hope this isn't too provocative.

Not to worry! :-)
Here in the Netherlands the possession of weapons is prohibited.
Exceptions are made for hunting which doesn't happen here on a large
scale were it only because in our country *everything* is on a small
scale ;-) and there is some strict screening involved. There are also
clubs for target shooting but as far as I know incidents involving
firearms have never been caused by these groups. However, if one wants
to buy a gun illegally, it can be done. I would know where and how to
get one cuz I know some pretty shady people ;-)

Philip

Dennis

2012-12-23 09:55:36 UTC

Post by Philip Peters

Post by Dennis
I'd be most curious to hear about the situation in other countries.
What are laws and regulations like? What about gun use, for hunting,
target shooting, and self-protection? I know that in France, fear
that guns might be used in a revolution is a big factor - one that is
unknown in the US.
I hope this isn't too provocative.

I've been there and I know! :-) I liked the Netherlands.

BTW,

http://now.msn.com/holland-vs-the-netherlands-explained-in-viral-video

and there is some strict screening involved. There are also

Post by Philip Peters
clubs for target shooting but as far as I know incidents involving
firearms have never been caused by these groups.

Good. I dunno whether people like that are a big risk here either. I
suspect they're a lot lower risk.

Post by Philip Peters
However, if one wants
to buy a gun illegally, it can be done. I would know where and how to
get one cuz I know some pretty shady people ;-)

Ooooooooh. Not me. ;-)

Dennis

_TJ_

2012-12-22 16:41:52 UTC

Post by Dennis
I wonder what anyone here thinks about the Sandy Hook Elementary School
shootings tragedy?

i think weapons that can kill dozens of people in a matter of minutes probably
shouldn't be in the hands of the public! i'd be nervous if the police even
had that type of firepower here to be honest.

it is possible to get a gun for target shooting in ireland but not for much
else. you need to get it registered with the police and renew every 3 years
i think. it's supposed to be quite hard to get and if you have a mental illness
you may as well forget about it! x)

no one i know ever had a gun or had any interest in target shooting
so it's not much of an issue. in fact i can't think of a single shooting range
here off the top of my head though i know there are a few in the country.

our police don't have guns either which is how the people like it though the special
branch do have them for dealing with occasional bank robberies etc. actually
the economy being what it is i'm not even convinced our army still has any guns... =P

now that i think about it, i live in one of the most crime-ridden parts of
dublin and in 30 years i've only ever seen one gun! probably for the best really,
we are quick-tempered and fond of alcohol at the best of times - if we had the same
amount of guns as there are in america we'd be shooting people left and right! xD

--
_TJ_
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Mary

2012-12-23 05:35:38 UTC

Post by _TJ_

Post by Dennis
I wonder what anyone here thinks about the Sandy Hook Elementary School
shootings tragedy?

i think weapons that can kill dozens of people in a matter of minutes probably
shouldn't be in the hands of the public! i'd be nervous if the police even
had that type of firepower here to be honest.

it is possible to get a gun for target shooting in ireland but not for much
else. you need to get it registered with the police and renew every 3 years
i think. it's supposed to be quite hard to get and if you have a mental illness
you may as well forget about it! x)
no one i know ever had a gun or had any interest in target shooting
so it's not much of an issue. in fact i can't think of a single shooting range
here off the top of my head though i know there are a few in the country.
our police don't have guns either which is how the people like it though the special
branch do have them for dealing with occasional bank robberies etc.
actually
the economy being what it is i'm not even convinced our army still has any guns... =P
now that i think about it, i live in one of the most crime-ridden parts of
dublin and in 30 years i've only ever seen one gun! probably for the best really,
we are quick-tempered and fond of alcohol at the best of times - if we had the same
amount of guns as there are in america we'd be shooting people left and right! xD

TJ - It is much the same in Canada about guns. Since you mention you are in
Dublin, you are in Republic of Ireland and not Northern Ireland.?

Mary

_TJ_

2012-12-23 21:46:12 UTC

Post by Mary
TJ - It is much the same in Canada about guns. Since you mention you are in
Dublin, you are in Republic of Ireland and not Northern Ireland.?
Mary

hi mary! yes dublin is the capital of the republic and the most populace
city on the island of ireland. speaking of the north though, i think they have a
fair few guns in northern ireland left over from the time of the IRA, but you don't
hear too much about that these days thankfully. they've mostly been buried in
deserted bits of land in rural areas it seems - and long may they stay buried! =)

Mary

2012-12-24 08:44:19 UTC

Post by _TJ_

Post by Mary
TJ - It is much the same in Canada about guns. Since you mention you are in
Dublin, you are in Republic of Ireland and not Northern Ireland.?
Mary

Northern Ireland has been through a wars that never seemed to end, with many
people dying with shootings and bombs.I hope the people there have some
peace at last. I agree long may the guns and weapons stay buried there. I am
Scottish born. Never been in Ireland. My grandfather (mothers father) was
born in N. Ireland.He and his family migrated to Scotland when my
grandfather was a boy. Never met him. He died by the time I was born. He was
the only person I heard of when I lived in Scotland. who had been born in
Ireland. My mothers maternal family were all Scottish back many
generations -probably back to the Picts :).

Mary

Dennis

2012-12-23 09:57:22 UTC

Post by _TJ_
it is possible to get a gun for target shooting in ireland but not for
much else. you need to get it registered with the police and renew
every 3 years i think. it's supposed to be quite hard to get and if
you have a mental illness you may as well forget about it! x)

There is a process if you've been in a mental hospital in the US and want
to get a gun. You have to have a mental health professional who will
certify that you've recovered and are safe, then you apply to the Bureau of
ATF. Your application is published in the Federal Register, to see whether
anyone has an objection; if there is none after a certain period, you get a
permit. You have to show the permit whenever you buy a gun or ammunition.

Dennis

Diane

2012-12-23 21:04:56 UTC

I feel sorry for anyone who has a mental illness, etc., but I think this is
outrageous that they could get a gun permit that easily. Maybe I am wrong,
but it just sounds like it is too easy for them. :-(

Diane

Mary

2012-12-24 21:37:12 UTC

I feel sorry for anyone who has a mental illness, etc., but I think this
is outrageous that they could get a gun permit that easily. Maybe I am
wrong, but it just sounds like it is too easy for them. :-(

I agree, but the whole process in the U.S. makes it very easy for anyone to
get a gun. Thats the problem and that is what Obama and others are trying
to correct. It was in the headlines of the Toronto Star today that the
president of the NRA says "the only way to solve the problem of too many
guns is with more guns" and "the only way to stop bad guys with guns is good
guys with guns". And that all schools in the U.S. should have armoured
guards. Yeah, right! and where would the money come from to do that? They
noticeably don't say anything about any kind of gun control being done.
Mayor Bloomberg of New York city is all for gun control and has been that
way for a long time. He says a lot of sensible things about what might be
done.
Do you ever watch Piers Morgan on CNN? The other night on his show he was
interviewing a gun activist, and he really lost his temper when talking to
him and just cut him off the show. the guy wasn't right there on his
show.But on live video. I have never seen Piers get steamed up like that.

Mary

Mary

2012-12-24 00:57:04 UTC

I think they must still miss a lot of these young guys in the U.S. who are
mentally ill but have managed not to be in a mental hospital, or if they
have been in one, they could buy guns illegally. They are also able at times
to act fairly normal yet have obsessions and mental illnesses. It's not an
easy thing to find out in advance and it's not easy for the family of these
guys to try to get them into a mental hospital. That is one of the things
Obama and others are now trying to correct - that more mentally ill people
are identified and get treatment before they kill anybody. The mother of the
young guy in the Sandy Hook case was trying to get him seen in a mental
hospital, but he wouldn't go and said he was fine. It's a difficult
situation for the families of these mentally ill people to get them to
treatment.

Mary

Dennis

2012-12-24 08:43:35 UTC

Post by Mary
I think they must still miss a lot of these young guys in the U.S. who
are mentally ill but have managed not to be in a mental hospital, or
if they have been in one, they could buy guns illegally. They are also
able at times to act fairly normal yet have obsessions and mental
illnesses. It's not an easy thing to find out in advance and it's not
easy for the family of these guys to try to get them into a mental
hospital. That is one of the things Obama and others are now trying to
correct - that more mentally ill people are identified and get
treatment before they kill anybody. The mother of the young guy in the
Sandy Hook case was trying to get him seen in a mental hospital, but
he wouldn't go and said he was fine. It's a difficult situation for
the families of these mentally ill people to get them to treatment.

I hardly know what to say. As we all know here, even if you acknowledge a
problem, finding something that works for you is tough and takes some time.
And even then, what you need often changes after a while!

I have a neighbor whose son is bipolar, The son doesn't always stay on his
meds, thinking he doesn't need them any more, and keeps getting in trouble.
As I recall, he crashed his car into a university classroom once. So you
can have that too.

Dennis

Mary

2012-12-24 19:42:09 UTC

Yes, and much of the problem is it is not always obvious or easy to identify
people who are capable of mass shootings or any shootings because part of
their mental illness is thinking they are normal and some may have normal
thinking at times but are susceptible to breakdowns when they have
hallucinations and think all sorts of weird things which can propel them to
do dangerous acts to others or to themselves..

Post by Dennis
I have a neighbor whose son is bipolar, The son doesn't always stay on his
meds, thinking he doesn't need them any more, and keeps getting in trouble.
As I recall, he crashed his car into a university classroom once. So you
can have that too.

I think going off meds in the mentally ill who are not closely monitored
happens a lot and causes breakdowns in schizophrenics and other mentally
ill. Many are ok as long on medication and are monitored closely but some go
off meds because of severe side effects of the medications and in their
minds, they think they don't need them.This can be very dangerous to the the
public and/or themselves. Most of these young guys who do mass shootings
have been shown later to have mental problems and have either not been
diagnosed, or were on medication for their problems and went off it. In many
or most cases, they need to be on meds for a lifetime.

What you said above reminds me of a case here in Canada abt 3 yrs ago when a
schizophrenic guy killed a young guy with a knife on a long distance bus.The
young guy did nothing wrong,but the schizo guy said voices told him (along
with hallucinations) that the young guy was evil. It created a big stir here
and as often the case, the schizo guy had been on meds for his psychiatric
problems but went off it. He was charged with murder but not guilty because
of mental illness and put in a psychiatric hospital. It was in the news a
little while back, that he had been allowed supervised passes to go to a
nearby town and since he was doing quite well, phychiatrists at the hospital
thought he could possibly be released at some later time if he kept doing
well.

There was a big uproar by most Canadians.The murderer spent only 3 years in
a hospital and were mad at the weak laws governing people who are found not
guilty by insanity. Due to public pressure, recently the government
announced changes to laws and much longer sentences will be considered or
maybe jail. The govt. need to do something to stop this kind of thing.
Maybe people can't help it if they have mental illness, but the public
safety has to come first. Also, where is justice for the young guy who was
killed? It was so sad for his mother and family and he had a child. Just my
thoughts.

In the noon news today another shooting happened near Rochester.4
firefighters were shot when called to a fire.Two firefighters died and two
are in hospital and as often happens, the shooter shot himself. The police
think its a very bizarre incident and are
are still investigating. I've never heard of fire fighters being shot
before. Police wonder if the firefighters walked into a trap, but this is
only speculation at this point. Poor firefighters.

Mary

Don

2012-12-22 22:47:18 UTC

Your topic is appropriate for this venue. In answer to Diane's comment,
Canada has much stricter gun ownership laws than in the U.S.A. For one
thing, you can't buy a gun at a Walmart store here. Needless to say,
one homicide by gun or by other method is one homicide too many.

Unlike the U.S. Canadians do not have the "right to bear arms". That
part of the second amendment to the U.S. constitution may have made
sense during a revolutionary war, but for the life of me,, I can't
understand its relevance today. Your post motivated me to look at
homicide statistics between both countries. You are nearly seven times
more likely to die from a gunshot in the U.S. than you are in Canada.
According to 2011 statistics, 68% of homicides in the States are by
firearm, and in Canada it was around 28%. Two thirds of the gun related
crimes in Canada are committed with weapons smuggled in from the United
States. And I am sure that statistic is much higher in Mexico and
throughout Central America.

There are countries with higher homicide rates than in the U.S., but
there is a message here. And that is, the fewer guns the better.

Mary

2012-12-23 05:37:04 UTC